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Old 10-24-2010, 12:54 PM   #1
69SCJ
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No oil pressure 351M

The quick version:
I have zero oil pressure. 0 when cold, 0 when warm. Needless to say I don't run it very long. I added a mechanical oil pressure gauge and it doesn't even push any oil up in to the tube.

The long version:
When I bought the Bronco the PO said it had a blown head gasket and that it was showing no oil pressure, and that he had just installed a high volume oil pump because it had no pressure. He said it still had no pressure after the new pump. I noticed the gauges didn't work at all so I was hoping once I got the gauges working it would show oil pressure. I never could get the gauges working so I hooked up a mechanical oil pressure and temp gauge yesterday, and as mentioned above it doesn't even push any oil up in to the tube for the gauge.

I'm looking for any advice or experience here. Are the 351M's bad about snapping oil pump drive shafts? Or stripping at the pump or distributor?

I did search, but all the serches came up low oil pressure rather than zero. :(

Thanks
Tyler
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Old 10-24-2010, 02:55 PM   #2
Rusty Shackelford
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try using a priming shaft and a drill and see what you can do.
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:54 PM   #3
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If i remember correctly the oil galley's are undersized and tend to clog up easy..... someone else could chime in and add to it but im pretty sure thats what it is. i had a 351M in a 76 F250 and it has about 5 lbs of oil pressure all the time
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:55 PM   #4
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This may help too http://www.automotiveforums.com/t336...351m_swap.html
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:14 PM   #5
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When you run the motor is there the knocking or tapping that is associated with no oil pressure ?
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:32 AM   #6
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351m don't have a lot of OP to start with. My engine never had more than about 10 psi hot idle. 40psi under load. If no knocks or rattles I'd say you have blocked port at the location of the sender.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Shackelford View Post
try using a priming shaft and a drill and see what you can do.
It has been 22 years since I built a motor, a 302, and I can't remmeber what I used to prime the motor. All I remember is using a drill to do it.

What size fitting is the end of the pump shaft? Can you just buy a priming shaft?

Thanks
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 351w500 View Post
When you run the motor is there the knocking or tapping that is associated with no oil pressure ?
It idles fine, but any gas and it sounds like a knock and or collapsed lifter. Definitely no oil.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macmillan1 View Post
If i remember correctly the oil galley's are undersized and tend to clog up easy..... someone else could chime in and add to it but im pretty sure thats what it is. i had a 351M in a 76 F250 and it has about 5 lbs of oil pressure all the time
I wish I had 5 lb's. of pressure. Absolutely nothing though. Thanks for the link also. I'll do some reading.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:11 PM   #10
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For one thing dont take the last owner word that he changed to oil pump. Does it look like the oil pan has been off? The pump might be locked up, the oil pump rod might be broke shit it even might not be in there. STOP starting it for one cause that is just KILLING the main and rod bearings.

If I was you I would pull the distributor and see if the rod is in there. And if it is see if you can rotate it.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:23 PM   #11
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For one thing dont take the last owner word that he changed to oil pump. Does it look like the oil pan has been off? The pump might be locked up, the oil pump rod might be broke shit it even might not be in there. STOP starting it for one cause that is just KILLING the main and rod bearings.

If I was you I would pull the distributor and see if the rod is in there. And if it is see if you can rotate it.
Yea, the pan has fresh sealant around it evidencing recent removal. The old oil pump is sitting in the floor board so I feel pretty confident it got changed. I am suspicious of the work though.

The rod/main bearings already worry me. I drove it on/off the trailer, a couple times to check the gauges, and once after installing the mechanical gauges. :( I'm considering pulling it and going thru the whole thing including putting new bearings in it. I don't want to spend money on machine though. May change my mind once I get into it though.

Trying to keep this project very cheap. Into it for $303.49 as it sits.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:48 PM   #12
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Knocking....time for a 460 IMO

if you gotta keep the M-block, start with this:

Remove your distributor and check the oil pump shaft, it is a 5/16" hex shaft. If it is twisted, your pump is locked up.

If it is twisted, get a new oil pump and a new pickup tube. Always replace as a pair.

It is a good idea to also get new valve seals and a new timing set. These parts came from ford made of nylon, and after 30 years the nylon gets brittle and brekas into pieces. If one of these pieces is small enough it will get lodged in the pump rotor and lock up the pump.

good luck
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:17 PM   #13
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Well lets hope he even put one back in lol. But really the pick up tube might have just feel off the pump to.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWheelz View Post
Knocking....time for a 460 IMO

if you gotta keep the M-block, start with this:

Remove your distributor and check the oil pump shaft, it is a 5/16" hex shaft. If it is twisted, your pump is locked up.

If it is twisted, get a new oil pump and a new pickup tube. Always replace as a pair.

It is a good idea to also get new valve seals and a new timing set. These parts came from ford made of nylon, and after 30 years the nylon gets brittle and brekas into pieces. If one of these pieces is small enough it will get lodged in the pump rotor and lock up the pump.

good luck
Funny you mention a 460. I was checking this out:
http://panamacity.craigslist.org/cto/2018795096.html

I was gonna wait until I clear some room in the garage to get back on this, but I may have to do some investigating sooner than later. Thanks for the info.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:16 PM   #15
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Well lets hope he even put one back in lol. But really the pick up tube might have just feel off the pump to.


It would be nice if the oil problem is something simple. It sure does look easy to drop the the pan on vehicle. Like nothing is in the way. :)
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:53 PM   #16
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Like nothing is in the way. :)
Take my word, as a Master Tech and a Ford guy: pull the dizzy. It's easier than laying on your back on the floor. If the pump drive rod is in there, you'll see it. Use a magnet to pull it out, so you can see if it's "barber-poled" (meaning it's twisted like taffy). That would indicate a locked pump. But if not, you can put it back in, along with the dizzy. Pull the filter, and pump some oil backwards into the pump. If the PO never properly primed the pump before installing it, it won't make any suction to draw the oil from the pan. Try those before removing the oil pan.
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Old 10-25-2010, 02:54 PM   #17
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Moroso makes the "oil pump primer" tool, part number 62210, cost me $35.00 and it's an 8 inch long round bar shaped tool and one end fits over the "intermediate oil pump shaft" that has an octagonal shape....th
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:11 PM   #18
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A Ford OP drive is designed to be removed from the pump side, not out the top. So what I wanna know is..... How are you guys pulling your OP drives without knocking off the drive-retainer and having it fall into the oil pan?

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Old 10-25-2010, 03:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Take my word, as a Master Tech and a Ford guy: pull the dizzy. It's easier than laying on your back on the floor. If the pump drive rod is in there, you'll see it. Use a magnet to pull it out, so you can see if it's "barber-poled" (meaning it's twisted like taffy). That would indicate a locked pump. But if not, you can put it back in, along with the dizzy. Pull the filter, and pump some oil backwards into the pump. If the PO never properly primed the pump before installing it, it won't make any suction to draw the oil from the pan. Try those before removing the oil pan.

Oh yea, definitely pulling the dizzy first. Was just saying there appears to be a lot of room under there compared to my 'Stang and 89 Bronc' if I have to pull it.

If I were to try to pull the shaft out from above wouldn't there be a retaining clip from preventing that? Same one that keeps it from coming out with the distributor? I'm not familiar with the 351M, but assume they are the same as 302's.

Thaks for the info. Heck, I may pull the dizzy this evening if I get a chance.
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:38 PM   #20
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Moroso makes the "oil pump primer" tool, part number 62210, cost me $35.00 and it's an 8 inch long round bar shaped tool and one end fits over the "intermediate oil pump shaft" that has an octagonal shape....the other end goes into the drill, distributor completely out you need to get the end of the tool on the intermediate oil pump shaft inside the little galley there, run the drill for approx 5 minutes so the oil circulates thru the oil pump and galleys etc......

I've heard of guys here making their own PRIMER TOOL with small mm sockets but be carefull if you do something like that, you don't want sockets coming off and dropping down inside the engine you know.....ain't no magnet gonna help there....lol lol

* This is the procedure for new or rebuilt engines before firing it up the first time.
Obviously it's easier if the engine is out of the vehicle on a stand so you can simply turn it upside down and perform this procedure...

Keep in mind there is a little round "CLIP or KEEPER" on the intermediate shaft which prevents it from droping out of the oil pump when upside down......ROYAL PITA to get that shaft with it's octagonal shape back into the pump thru the top distributor hole "galley".....EEHHH!

I'm assuming with the mechanical guage you don't need the oil
pressure sending unit...?


Good Luck ~
If I make my own primer I think I'll tack weld the socket to the extention to be safe. If I remember right it is easy to tell when the oil pressure is up as the torque on the drill becomes obvious.

I took the sending unit off when I added the mechanical gauge.
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