Quick question on Mig welders...

[f1fiddy]

Originally Posted by waltman

Very bad advise. You show me what you can get for that price range that can weld even 1/8" and welding beyond your welders capacity, very very bad.

I hope you post pics of your welds when they DO fail

First off ya mine is flux core only, the lincoln that my buddy has can be set up for flux or gas.My bad, I tend to class them together do the similaraties.

Walt I know you are the pro on here I just see things differently I guess.I think to tell someone to spend close to a 1k or don't bother is bad advice because if they follow it they prolly won't end up getting into welding and building there own stuff.

I assumed the op just wanted to get started and maybe build a bumper or a custom battery box or airbox or maybe weld some exhaust.These are all things I have made/welded with my little 110v flux core welder.My first ever project was an ice chipper for around the yard and then a headboard for the wifey.After that I built my bumper which is holding up fine.Like I mentioned previously I try to over build things like bumpers that will see stress.

If someone is building a natural gas pipeline or welding on a skyscraper than they should definitely NOT buy some cheap little welder.

I will be glad to post pics IF one my welds breaks but don't hold your breath I also built a front driveshaft and was a little nervous but it held up fine this past summer, It's not a daily driver and 4x4 only gets used on the trail at low speeds.

[waltman]

Some good points fiddy. I guess I just like to be sure that what I build wont fail or hurt someone. I guess when you have to push a mini bike for almost a mile out of the bush because a weld failed will make an individual a little jaded.

[f1fiddy]

Originally Posted by waltman

Some good points fiddy. I guess I just like to be sure that what I build wont fail or hurt someone. I guess when you have to push a mini bike for almost a mile out of the bush because a weld failed will make an individual a little jaded.

I totally agree with not failing and hurting someone for sure, that's why for us non-pro's we need to over build just to be on the safe side.

Another key for a newbie-welder is don't start with a bumper or tow point, more like a head board so if that fails all that happens is the handcuff comes off or something.

[Hefty]

Take your time and learn on scrap before you try to make anything important.

If your welds look like this keep trying


If they look like this your ready to build a bumper or cage but you won't get that out of a flux core.

[Kalashnikov]

Originally Posted by waltman

Really? I say it's the exact opposite. I find the gun to be too big and bulky for tight corners compared to a length of wire I can bend if need be to get to an awkward, tight corner. I've had to bend the rod 180* to get a blind corner and you just can't do that with mig.

Very bad advise. You show me what you can get for that price range that can weld even 1/8" and welding beyond your welders capacity, very very bad.

I hope you post pics of your welds when they DO fail

I haven't had much practice doing that, but it doesn't seem too easy from what little i have done. Especially striking an ark like that.

Originally Posted by f1fiddy

I totally agree with not failing and hurting someone for sure, that's why for us non-pro's we need to over build just to be on the safe side.

Another key for a newbie-welder is don't start with a bumper or tow point, more like a head board so if that fails all that happens is the handcuff comes off or something.

Agreed ^^^

Another thing about buying a nice welder vs a cheapo is splatter. The cheapos have a BUNCH more splatter. It's pretty annoying if you can clean up a weld in a corner and makes it look like ass. My 175 HD and my Dialarc 250 have hardly any and it's very nice.

[waltman]

Hefty, why do you say flux core couldn't weld like that? To me it looks like either flux core or jet rod was used in that pic. All the shops I worked in had flux core for everything to do with welding (for the most part), unless you are referring to gasless flux core than maybe because I have very little experience with that but have heard people bitch about it.

[Hefty]

I was referring to gasless flux core. Like what you get with a little 110 $300 rig. Sorry Walt I should have clarified. With a gasless flux core you typically will see pitting in the weld. That pic shows a smooth consistant weldjust not typical of fluxcore. Not that I have any issues with flux core except the splatter and scale on the final weld.

[f1fiddy]

Originally Posted by Hefty

I was referring to gasless flux core. Like what you get with a little 110 $300 rig. Sorry Walt I should have clarified. With a gasless flux core you typically will see pitting in the weld. That pic shows a smooth consistant weldjust not typical of fluxcore. Not that I have any issues with flux core except the splatter and scale on the final weld.

Allright now I am a little lost, one of you guys should break down the basic type's of wire feed welder's cause I thought there were only two.Spike actually wanted some input on the different types and might help him make a choice for a welder.

1.flux core with no gas
2.mig which uses gas and has no shielding on the wire.

I agree hefty cause none of my welds ever look that good, one thing I do to help with the splatter is use nozzle spray on the parts.It helps with the cleanup and is not suppose interfere with the weld and penetration.

[Shadofax]

Originally Posted by f1fiddy

Allright now I am a little lost, one of you guys should break down the basic type's of wire feed welder's cause I thought there were only two.Spike actually wanted some input on the different types and might help him make a choice for a welder.

1.flux core with no gas
2.mig which uses gas and has no shielding on the wire.

I agree hefty cause none of my welds ever look that good, one thing I do to help with the splatter is use nozzle spray on the parts.It helps with the cleanup and is not suppose interfere with the weld and penetration.

yes, all of the above for me. My hobart came ready for use as a flux core unit with no gas ( you need flux core shielding wire for this, it has a layer of gas on the wire). Then later you can switch polarity (at least you need to do this with my hobart) and use solid wire (I use .035) and C25 gas, which is fed down the gun cable and comes out the nozzle. Make sure you get a unit capable of MIG (the latter, using gas). the hobart is nice since it's a less expensive Miller and comes with the miller gun.

I still don't understand any concern with 220 mig though, at least for what I'm using it for, tire carrier, tranny xmember, sliders, etc. It can handle the .120 to .25" no problem, plenty of penetration.

Just for Spiked though, think about what you might have to weld? Thickness wise, I've done 3/8ths a couple times, 1/2", a small piece maybe once. And I don't do sheetmetal. and I use it a few times a year. So would I spend $1k, on a machine? Absolutely not. Would I also have been happy with a 110, no. But what you plan to weld, and how often, and how much to spend, and how easy of a unit you want, and your ability to pay for the added junk, should be your inputs into deciding.

[waltman]

Originally Posted by f1fiddy

Allright now I am a little lost, one of you guys should break down the basic type's of wire feed welder's cause I thought there were only two.Spike actually wanted some input on the different types and might help him make a choice for a welder.

1.flux core with no gas
2.mig which uses gas and has no shielding on the wire.

I agree hefty cause none of my welds ever look that good, one thing I do to help with the splatter is use nozzle spray on the parts.It helps with the cleanup and is not suppose interfere with the weld and penetration.

Here is a good write up that should clear it up for you. It's a good read.

[Hefty]

Originally Posted by f1fiddy

Allright now I am a little lost, one of you guys should break down the basic type's of wire feed welder's cause I thought there were only two.Spike actually wanted some input on the different types and might help him make a choice for a welder.

1.flux core with no gas
2.mig which uses gas and has no shielding on the wire.

I agree hefty cause none of my welds ever look that good, one thing I do to help with the splatter is use nozzle spray on the parts.It helps with the cleanup and is not suppose interfere with the weld and penetration.

Basically this is what it comes down to. As Spike stated he is looking at getting a welder in the $300 range so I'm gonna stick with that. Buying new he will be getting a low end 110 mig/flux core welder. Most likely it will be a self shielding flux-core unless he forks out the extra dough for the gas kit to convert to MIG (Metal Inert Gas), solid wire with a shielding gas to keep the pool from contamination and reduce spatter. For most applications from about 14g up to 1/4" steel the self shielding flux core will be fine. If he wants to do thinner sheet metal or body work he should get the gas(MIG) kit. The MIG on the smaller units typically will not weld more than 1/8" with decent penetration.
Next we get into duty cycle. Harbor freight and China made welders will have a very low duty cycle (about 10%), Miller, Hobart (Owned by Miller), Lincoln will cost a little more but typically have about a 20% duty cycle. Basically think of it this way weld for 1 minute and the unit has to cool off for 10 minutes = 10% duty cycle. Obviously the higher the duty cycle the better. 20% is ok. 40% will work for most hobbies. 60% for light duty fabrication and so on. Don't expect to get into the 60% range without putting down about $1500 min.
Start low and when your skills improve buy a bigger welder. The good thing about the little 110 units is that they are portable and great for hauling to your friends house to weld something up. I can't haul my Hobart Ironman 250 around.

Originally Posted by Shadofax

Just for Spiked though, think about what you might have to weld? Thickness wise, I've done 3/8ths a couple times, 1/2", a small piece maybe once. And I don't do sheetmetal. and I use it a few times a year. So would I spend $1k, on a machine? Absolutely not. Would I also have been happy with a 110, no. But what you plan to weld, and how often, and how much to spend, and how easy of a unit you want, and your ability to pay for the added junk, should be your inputs into deciding.

Good points Mark. There is no need for a huge expensive welder for most hobby welders. As You stated you don't need to spend a grand to get what will serve your needs. Spike said he doesn't have 220 hookups so get the 110 and start with that. You can always upgrade.

Spike that was a good write up. This explains the flux core thing really good:

There are two types of flux cored wires: gas shielded and self shielded. Gas shielded flux cored wires require external shielding gas and the slag is easy to remove. The operator may want to consider using gas shielded flux cored wires when welding on thicker metals or in out-of-position applications. Gas shielded flux cored wires have a flux coating that solidifies more quickly than the molten weld material. As a result, it creates a "shelf" to hold the molten pool when welding overhead or vertically up. Self shielding flux cored wire does not require external shielding gas; the weld pool is protected by gas generated when flux from the wire is burned. As a result, self shielding flux cored wire is more portable because it does not require an external gas tank.

[f1fiddy]

Originally Posted by waltman

Here is a good write up that should clear it up for you. It's a good read.

Thanks Walt, that should help Spiked make a good choice for what he wants to do.

[chaka433]

buy a lincoln 135 amp at home depot ,its 115volts it will weld up to 3/8 metal and go staight to the outlet will get more power, it is flux core .035 wire , you can also attach argon gas to it and weld stainless metal.

[Optika1 illushun]

im glad this thread was brought up, i learned a lot again (took welding classes in school, forgot a lot). i leanred to do MIG, TIG, STICK and Oxy/Acet...anyway, i been eyeing up a hobart welder for a long time, i think its the handler 140 as i dont plan on mass producting bumpers or rock sliders...just some sheet metal work, repairing or making brackets, etc...does that sound like a decent choice?

[MajSuckelton]

Originally Posted by MajSuckelton

This fits your description:
handler140
It's still 115v, but can do 1/4" with flux core and comes with gas hookup for thinner stuff. It won't do 1/4" single pass with gas and solid mig wire. It doesn't have the juice for that. So, you will just have to flip rollers, and swap spools, tip, liner, nozzle and polarity if you decide you want to go from welding thick to thin or vice versa.

The only caveat is that it's not quite under $300. Especially with a c25 tank. Maybe you can find a Miller/Hobart/Lincoln 140 machine used and stay within budget.

I'm quoting myself from page one as you all have gone around in a circle and back to what I've already said. Since we are limited by funds and a 110v outlet here, get a handler 140 and you can weld 1/4" single pass with flux core. You DO NOT need to weld anything thicker than 1/4" on a 1/2 ton vehicle. Even a 1" thick shackle mount is eventually connected to a 3/16" frame via a 3/16-1/4" thick bumper, so, since you don't need more penetration than the thinnest of the two metals being joined you are still good to go.

Add to that the fact that the Handler 140 comes with the gas solenoid and associated parts you save yourself $100-150 whenever you decide to convert to gas to weld sheet metal. All you need to do is add a bottle of C25 and a spool of .25 solid wire and change out your tip, nozzle, polarity and liner.

Here's a project I did w/ FCAW:

(I wish I had some better pictures of the welds)

[MajSuckelton]

Another option if SMAW interest anyone. These little machines are run of 110v and are going for right at $300. I got to try one out last night.

Thermal Arc